Join us as we delve into the world of technological innovation inspired by nature with award-winning author and science journalist Kristy Hamilton. Kristy is a frequent contributor to notable publications like WIRED, Science Magazine, Hakai Magazine, Business Insider, Mongabay, and others.
LISTEN TO THIS EPISODE
EPISODE LINKS
Kristy’s book “Nature’s Wild Ideas: How the Natural World is Inspiring Scientific Innovation”: https://www.amazon.com/Natures-Wild-Ideas-Scientific-Innovation/dp/1771648198 Follow Kristy on Instagram: http://instagram.com/kristy_hamilton
Explore Kristy’s Website: https://www.kristyehamilton.com/
-
(Note: The following transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors.)
00;00;00;01 – 00;00;01;26
Speaker 1
Brought to you by Flow Spark Media.00;00;01;28 – 00;00;25;14
Speaker 2
This opens up so many more avenues of creativity for how we design a robot, how we create energy. Oftentimes, our limitation is really the materials that we have at hand. This is actually, I think, where we are progressing the furthest and where we also see a lot of biomimicry.00;00;25;16 – 00;00;48;24
Speaker 1
Hey, guys, Eric here. And welcome back to another episode of the Science Centric podcast. This is a show where we have thought provoking conversations about science, society and the natural world. And who am I? I’m a filmmaker and journalist with a passion for science and nature. I also happen to be the host of this show. Now, before we dive into this episode, just a quick reminder to subscribe to the channel and hit that little bell for notifications.00;00;48;24 – 00;01;10;21
Speaker 1
When new content goes live. Thanks for helping this little channel to grow for making the world a little more science centric. So if you didn’t already know, this episode is all about biomimicry. If you’ve ever used Velcro, taken an aspirin or bought IKEA furniture, you’ve used a biomimetic product, meaning it imitates the structure or function of something already found in nature.00;01;10;22 – 00;01;35;16
Speaker 1
Our guest in this episode, Kristi Hamilton, knows this topic well. She’s a journalist and author who has written a whole book, Nature’s Wildest Ideas about the latest and greatest biomimetic Inventions. Now, I’ll just preface this episode with the fact that I was recovering from COVID when we recorded some a little bit unfocused. Fortunately, Kristi was very clear and articulate and kept things on track.00;01;35;19 – 00;01;44;21
Speaker 1
So thank you to Kristi. And without further ado, Kristi, thanks for joining us and thanks for being here.00;01;44;24 – 00;01;47;01
Speaker 2
Yeah, thank you for having me.00;01;47;03 – 00;01;52;16
Speaker 1
Cool. So what is biomimicry?00;01;52;19 – 00;02;27;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you can find a few definitions online for what? Biomimicry is. But how I define biomimicry is that biomimicry is a practice that learns from and mimics the strategies found in nature to help us humans solve design challenges. So how can we look to nature to solve some of the problems that we’re facing with clean energy or with pollution or with even structural design?00;02;27;26 – 00;02;46;05
Speaker 2
How can we look towards how evolution has done it over billions of years to design our way towards something that is either more efficient, more sustainable? Yeah. Or, you know, helps us with our health.00;02;46;07 – 00;02;59;13
Speaker 1
So what advantages do biological systems have in terms of design versus something that we would design in more of a, I guess, top down way?00;02;59;16 – 00;03;23;26
Speaker 2
That’s actually a really good question. So animals often develop very niche strategies for the environment that they’re in. So they’re not good at everything. They’re usually very good at one specific thing. So we’re not looking to one animal to help us solve all our ails, right? We’re actually saying, wow, this creature is so good at this one thing.00;03;23;28 – 00;03;53;26
Speaker 2
And can we take inspiration from that? Can we use that and incorporate it into our own designs? Because sometimes we don’t have access maybe to the same materials that animals are using, right? Or we can’t harness the energy of the sun quite as well as animals can yet, but we can be inspired by this really efficient design process that they’ve developed because energy is the key resource in the animal kingdom, right?00;03;54;03 – 00;04;18;27
Speaker 2
They don’t want to have to overproduce something to, you know, to get a benefit if they need to get food. They want to do it in the most efficient way possible. And oftentimes that means they design in a very smart fashion, although, of course, evolution has no foresight in mind, but it ends up being a very smart solution to a design challenge.00;04;18;29 – 00;04;44;10
Speaker 1
And I guess animals, biological systems, creatures, they are not just animals, plants, obviously, too, but they have the advantage of time. Right. They’ve had bazillions of years to figure this stuff out. Their genes have had bazillions of years to figure this stuff out. Whereas we we’re trying to do this in a year or two years or ten years.00;04;44;13 – 00;05;11;27
Speaker 2
Exactly. It’s a benefit for them. And it’s also can be a pitfall in our design in the sense that they’ve had all these billions of years to design something so perfectly concocted for their environment. Right. But then how do we humans do the same thing? So, you know, like coral, for example, they take a very slow time to build their skeletons.00;05;11;27 – 00;05;35;25
Speaker 2
And yet we’ve taken inspiration from coral to help us create concrete that builds our buildings right, to make a greener cement with less carbon dioxide. But they do it so slowly and we need to process and build things really quickly. So we kind sometimes what we do is we like supercharged nature in science. We say, Wow, this is amazing.00;05;36;02 – 00;06;00;08
Speaker 2
How can we speed it up? So time works to their advantage in terms of the long evolutionary time and the brilliant ideas that has come from that has sprung from those billions of years. But then at the same time, maybe a species can’t pivot like a single species in this moment, can’t pivot quite as quickly as we could with our science.00;06;00;14 – 00;06;01;04
Speaker 2
Mm hmm.00;06;01;07 – 00;06;28;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, I think of in particular with, like, plant evolution and pharmaceuticals. I think that’s that’s one that, I mean, is comes foremost to my mind in terms of, you know, long processes of evolution. And then we’re mimicking these processes to create new drugs, right? Is that a kind of avenue of biomimicry that you’ve explored?00;06;28;08 – 00;06;54;29
Speaker 2
It’s a huge one, yeah. I have a chapter dedicated to health. It’s actually a I focus on a reptile, but a lot of the examples towards the end of that chapter is plants, because so much of our medicine is inspired by plants in the natural world. They just have this great chemical diversity. It’s really the diversity of the plant kingdom that is so extraordinary and that has really worked well to our advantage.00;06;55;00 – 00;07;22;16
Speaker 2
Same with venoms, oddly enough, it’s very much plants and venoms, but I think it can sound woo woo to people because they’re like, Oh, herbal remedies, You must be talking about some kind of witchcraft. But it’s not at all like our breast cancer medications, our penicillin, our, you know, a whole bunch of these, like really important medications that affect millions of people have been inspired by plants and animals and their venoms.00;07;22;16 – 00;07;30;24
Speaker 2
And it’s pretty incredible stuff. And I’m surprised that we’d tend to like distance that association, you know?00;07;30;26 – 00;07;41;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. I think when people think about that, they don’t think of that. That’s biomimicry. They’re thinking of something that’s more in the realm of like engineering in particular.00;07;41;04 – 00;08;06;11
Speaker 2
And it is big. Yeah, that’s actually what is so interesting about biomimicry is that it’s an interdisciplinary field. So if you look at, you know, MIT or Harvard, they have sole departments dedicated to biomimetic science, but they’re bringing in people who are chemists, who are engineers, who are designers, and they’re getting them to all sort of sit at the table and say, hey, we have this problem, how can we solve it?00;08;06;14 – 00;08;20;00
Speaker 2
And so it really is kind of getting all of those people together, like you say, right? And be like, Oh, this is a challenge. What can we do? I’m going to bring my expertise from this angle, from this angle, from this angle. And yeah.00;08;20;03 – 00;08;44;15
Speaker 1
That’s really interesting. Yeah. So. So if you were if you were going to go into the field of like bio biomimetics, I guess that would be that’s a very much an interdisciplinary field, right? I mean, are you, are the scientists that you encountered, are they specialists, are they more interdisciplinary or do they work on teams? I mean, I guess or maybe there’s a combination.00;08;44;17 – 00;09;08;12
Speaker 2
It’s a good question. I have often found that they’re very much specialists with a very creative mind. They often lead teams and these really forward thinking ideas and they’re really good at gathering partners who can help them, you know, enact their ideas, experiment with their ideas in the lab. But I wouldn’t say there’s anyone who is a Biomimetics specialist.00;09;08;12 – 00;09;37;06
Speaker 2
I think you can get a two year degree program, but I would very much say they’re more communicators than they are scientists, because usually nature is so frickin intricate, you know, they’re so, so intricate. We still struggle to even understand how to do it. I mean, most of the things that we build with are steel and solid and right angles, and nature is flexible and flesh and very few right angles in the animal kingdom, you know?00;09;37;06 – 00;09;54;13
Speaker 2
And so we still struggle to even understand how to do that. So oftentimes they have to be specialists at the table. So somebody who’s a specialist in materials, someone who’s a specialist in energy, and then how can they, like, synthesize that specialty into something that is biomimicry?00;09;54;15 – 00;10;10;12
Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s kind of it’s kind of amazing when you think about the fact that we need all of those specialists at the table to do something that’s maybe happening in one cell, if you’re of a body of an organism, you know?00;10;10;14 – 00;10;31;04
Speaker 2
But yeah, it sounds kind of wild. Yeah, it’s humbling. I have found myself very humbled throughout this process. I’m incredibly astonished by what scientists can do, and I’m also incredibly humbled by how far we are from what a simple insect can do, you know?00;10;31;06 – 00;10;57;10
Speaker 1
Yeah, I remember seeing a like a diagram or something that someone had created. That was all that. It was like creating a factory that would do a biological process that happens, you know, on a on a micro scale inside of an organism. And it’s like this huge factory with all these, you know, vats and pistons and, you know, things, steam pumps and all this stuff.00;10;57;12 – 00;11;18;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know what that reminds me of? It reminds me of this line that I have, which is that it’s so much easier to make things bigger in terms of like what we can do as humans. It’s so much easier for us to make big things as you see with our computers, right? They slowly get smaller because it’s actually harder to make things smaller than it is to make things bigger.00;11;18;27 – 00;11;33;11
Speaker 2
And yet life on this planet started small and then got bigger and then maybe got smaller again, you know, depending on how evolution worked. But it started small and we often like to start big and then move small.00;11;33;13 – 00;11;52;24
Speaker 1
Hey, there. If you made it this far through the episode, you’re probably enjoying this conversation. I’m learning a few new things along the way. If so, I’d really appreciate your support so we can bring you even more quality science and nature content to YouTube. Head on over to our Patreon page to find out how you can support us directly.00;11;52;27 – 00;12;25;25
Speaker 1
We have three tiers you can join. And they started only a dollar a month. The links in the description below and then key to our existing patrons for their support. Now on with the show. Maybe we could segway a little bit to talking about some of these technologies that you talk about in the book. So let’s start with, you know, what what what’s your what’s your favorite one that you that you came across that surprised you?00;12;25;28 – 00;12;56;21
Speaker 2
Yes. My favorite one is how a lobster inspired an x ray telescope that is now on a satellite heading towards Mercury because it’s mind blowing to me that something in space was inspired by something that lives deep in dark waters and how we got there. And also because why does nobody else really seem to talk about this or why does no one else know that much about it?00;12;56;21 – 00;13;27;20
Speaker 2
There’s actually a fair a fair amount of material out there. I also did interviews, but we seem to focus on things like gecko tape and, you know, kind of the simple inventions. And yet there are so many that have won a Nobel Prize or were launched into outer space or just had massive impact. And so the lobster inspired telescope, as NASA’s calls it, it’s, you know, very literal to its name, which is why I’m also surprised it didn’t get more media.00;13;27;20 – 00;14;05;13
Speaker 2
Liftoff is my favorite because it’s really showcases, again, like a shift or a shift of view. Right. So we understand how we view the world. But it wasn’t until we explored how another creature views the world, how they use a different biological design for the eye to design a telescope that had eluded us for decades. It was something that astronomers were working on for decades because an X-ray is something like 100 to 1000 times more powerful than an optical photon.00;14;05;16 – 00;14;33;28
Speaker 2
So what we can see with our with our sentences, right. And so it just passes right through telescopes just passes right through our technology. It’s too powerful in many ways to catch. So they ended up looking to a lobster of all things to create this sort of dreamed of telescope that took many decades after even the initial vision to develop because the technology was so sophisticated.00;14;34;01 – 00;14;48;11
Speaker 2
And you think about that like a technology so sophisticated, and it’s that beady little eye in a lobster, right? Like, that’s just so crazy to me. And so how that happened, do you want to know?00;14;48;13 – 00;14;49;03
Speaker 1
Yes.00;14;49;06 – 00;15;12;15
Speaker 2
Okay. So what is so special about lobster eyes? And what’s so special is that they actually use millions of tiny mirrored tubes in their eyes. You know, we have this sort of, like jelly, this goo that we use and we use like, you know, refraction, etc.. We flip things upside down. They don’t they see the world exactly as it is.00;15;12;15 – 00;15;43;00
Speaker 2
But through these millions of mirrors and people never even thought to consider that because how can you have mirrors in nature? It’s a human invention, you would think, but it’s not. You can see iridescence on a butterfly wing. You can see iridescence in quite a few places. And nature has used essentially what is guanine and cytoplasm, I believe, to create this natural, natural world mirror.00;15;43;03 – 00;16;15;25
Speaker 2
And they can do it at 20 microns, which is 20 times smaller than the period at the end of a sentence. And a lobster’s eye. That black beauty, little eye has millions of tiny micro channels that are mirrored and it bounces laid off of two sides and then enters its, you know, neural ganglia goes into its brain, It can kind of get a visual picture of the world in these really dark, murky places that it has to explore to find food.00;16;15;27 – 00;16;29;27
Speaker 1
So is the idea that this mirrored tube is amplifying that light in the maybe in the same way like a fiber optic excuse me, a fiber optic cable would not quite.00;16;29;27 – 00;17;02;20
Speaker 2
It’s actually what it’s helping to do is it’s helping. It’s almost taking some of the energy off, so to speak. So what it’s doing is, since it’s heading two sides, it’s been focused on to a single point. But it’s not just coming straight on. It’s been skimmed off at an angle. And by doing this, it’s actually building a picture that we can see, but it’s not at the full straight on strength that like an X-ray photon, which is beam right through the telescope.00;17;02;23 – 00;17;24;15
Speaker 2
So it’s kind of this weird optical trickery to like, you know, let it skim off the edge a bit and bounce twice before it enters that like focal lens. So it’s capturing x rays. And this is for astronomers, right? We actually use a similar technology now to, you know, peer underwater at fish. And that’s to see like the health of fish and stuff.00;17;24;15 – 00;17;48;01
Speaker 2
So they use NASA’s technologies and eso’s technology to for other purposes. But here they’re trying to capture x rays and x rays and gamma rays are emitted by massive explosions in the universe, some of the most powerful explosions in the universe. And these most powerful explosions in the universe are also where some of our most fundamental elements are formed.00;17;48;01 – 00;18;11;27
Speaker 2
It’s where it’s spread throughout the universe. And they start to collide and, you know, become essentially many, many millions of years down the line, many billions of years down the line. It becomes what you and I are. It’s these big explosions that have sort of garnered that saying that we are the stuff of stardust. It’s like we come from stardust.00;18;11;27 – 00;18;30;08
Speaker 2
Yeah. It’s these big explosions that we want to understand, to better understand the universe and ourselves and our origins. But it was always too powerful for us to capture. We can do visible light, like with Hubble, but how do you capture x rays? And it was the lobster that held the answer.00;18;30;10 – 00;18;51;01
Speaker 1
So cool. Yeah. So the the so the idea is that we want that we’re like going backwards. We want to we want to get a picture of what’s happening in the universe and we want to capture these x rays. But can we just sort of turn down the volume on that image, you know, to capture those x rays?00;18;51;01 – 00;19;03;10
Speaker 1
Is that is it’s not possible to kind of to just, you know, come up with a less sensitive detection method, or is that essentially what this is, is that it’s.00;19;03;12 – 00;19;25;05
Speaker 2
It’s essentially what it is, but you still want a clear picture. And so that’s kind of the weird struggle that you’re the push pull that they have to deal with, because it’s not that as less sensitive because it will beam Right. It’s just so powerful. It’s like how do you how do you capture something that is just so powerful, you know?00;19;25;07 – 00;19;30;15
Speaker 1
And so this you’re talking you’re talking actually about like, cosmic rays.00;19;30;18 – 00;19;31;22
Speaker 2
Cosmic rays.00;19;31;22 – 00;19;34;07
Speaker 1
Yes. Okay. Sorry, I wasn’t making that connection.00;19;34;07 – 00;19;43;03
Speaker 2
Oh, not like well, we use x rays for, like medical scanning devices and stuff, but this is like the x rays from the universe.00;19;43;05 – 00;19;47;17
Speaker 1
These are like high energy cosmic rays that are coming in.00;19;47;19 – 00;19;48;21
Speaker 2
Exactly like.00;19;48;24 – 00;19;49;08
Speaker 1
Yeah.00;19;49;11 – 00;20;09;18
Speaker 2
Have you ever seen, like, Napster images? Right, of stars and nebula and stuff? And they often color the images and these different colors and they’re trying to sort of showcase to you different wavelengths that we can’t see. So there’s visible. But then they’re also trying to do the gamma rays or the x rays or the, you know, UV.00;20;09;21 – 00;20;21;14
Speaker 2
Often they’re trying to like sort of showcase what we cannot see. We’re trying to use all the tools we can to capture the world that is invisible to us, which is a lot of it.00;20;21;16 – 00;20;28;00
Speaker 1
Cool. Let’s talk about tardigrades, because I think everybody loves water bears.00;20;28;03 – 00;20;28;19
Speaker 2
They do.00;20;28;24 – 00;20;33;23
Speaker 1
How are they helping us with health care?00;20;33;26 – 00;20;34;18
Speaker 2
Yes.00;20;34;21 – 00;20;36;08
Speaker 1
What? Our tardigrades.00;20;36;10 – 00;21;00;14
Speaker 2
That’s a good question. Tardigrades. Are these either very ugly or very cute creatures? Depending on if you’re someone who tends to find the ugly, slightly cute. They are these very, very tiny, tiny, tiny creatures. You usually have to use a microscope to see them. There are thousands of species of tardigrades. We tend to just kind of clump them into that category.00;21;00;15 – 00;21;33;00
Speaker 2
Tardigrades and they have six legs with little claws on them and they kind of just mosey along eating things like moss and algae, and you often find them in ponds or, you know, essentially areas that are mildly wet is you can also find them in very wet places as well. But the ones that scientists focus on are tend to be places that are like a pond that can dry up really quickly, like a small area, a small water source.00;21;33;00 – 00;21;38;24
Speaker 2
Essentially, they can dry up really quickly, but can then also refill back with water again very quickly.00;21;38;27 – 00;21;47;05
Speaker 1
And that is going to ask, they look like little I mean, are they animals? Would they be considered animals?00;21;47;08 – 00;21;48;27
Speaker 2
They are animals, yes.00;21;48;27 – 00;21;58;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. But they’re and they look somewhat complex. But I think they’re they’re actually really simple, Right? I mean, they’re they’re not composed of that many cells.00;21;58;04 – 00;22;20;16
Speaker 2
No, I think they’re just I don’t even know exactly how many cells they’re composed of, but they’re very simple creatures. They don’t you know, it’s when they eat things and nutrients. Right. Just touches all their cells and provides what they need. They don’t have a gastro intestinal tract that, you know, has to digest all the foods and stuff.00;22;20;16 – 00;22;27;18
Speaker 2
It’s like a very, very simple creature with like a very incredible superpower.00;22;27;21 – 00;22;38;19
Speaker 1
And and and then what are some of the amazing things that Tardigrades can do? Yeah. And how does that relate to medicine?00;22;38;22 – 00;23;08;13
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a good question. And so they, these tardigrades have had to develop a way to essentially be dried out, right? They live in these ponds, these like very ephemeral landscapes. And so if we were to dry out all of our cellular bits, all a little like bits and pieces, like proteins and stuff inside our bodies, which is rub together and, you know, break apart, they would break their shape and we would essentially die, which is why we can’t last more than three or four days really without water.00;23;08;15 – 00;23;35;21
Speaker 2
But tardigrades can last for 30 plus years. And so there has to be something that they’re doing inside their bodies that is helping them preserve themselves. And so scientists wanted to look towards this because our medicines, it’s very hard to transport our medicines without keeping it on ice or keeping it really cold. Our vaccines in particular, they’re very, very temperature sensitive.00;23;35;24 – 00;23;59;19
Speaker 2
And so is there a way that we can kind of do what the TARDIGRADE is doing and preserve these medicines right until they reach their desired location? And so that’s what the scientists were doing. And they did find that these tardigrades created something pretty impressive, which is trials and trials kind of just, you know, it’s doing its thing.00;23;59;19 – 00;24;28;05
Speaker 2
It’s it’s when it’s in a spot, when the tardigrade is happy and in water, it’s doing its thing like nothing’s really happening. But the moment the tardigrade dries up or desiccants the scientists call it, it’s kind of it it freezes into this internal cast. So almost like becomes glass and it just keeps everything in its place. So that if you had to make the equivalent with us right, our hearts wouldn’t collapse on to our liver or anything.00;24;28;10 – 00;24;59;09
Speaker 2
It would keep everything separated from each other. And then once water comes back, that tree hello smelt kind of like a sugar cube in a teacup and it kind of goes back to doing its thing, but it can essentially let that creature revitalize itself. And so we used a similar technique to try to keep all the little bits and pieces of medicine, you know, stored and structured while we’re transporting them to their specific location.00;24;59;11 – 00;25;08;04
Speaker 1
And so are are are we actually using this tree trail? Those molecule to do that, or is it something different?00;25;08;06 – 00;25;34;09
Speaker 2
Oh, we’re oh, well, I think they have synthesized tree hollows so they don’t have to get it from the tardigrades themselves. We’ve actually been able to sort of duplicate it, but it is still Tree Hollow. So they often put it with other chemicals depending on the structure of the medicine itself. But we use it for many different kinds of cancer medications, vaccines.00;25;34;09 – 00;26;00;02
Speaker 2
It can help preserve experiments or proteins that scientists want to look at in the lab so they don’t have to depend so heavily on the cold chain, which we you know, we’ve lived so many years without refrigeration. And then in this century, we just depend so much on keeping things cool and very, you know, temperature cool. Like there’s no extremes, no swings in temperature.00;26;00;09 – 00;26;23;08
Speaker 2
And our labs cost hundreds of thousands, hundreds and thousands of dollars. And, you know, if the lights go out and we lose electricity, oftentimes we lose our experiments, too. So scientists are looking for ways that we can have a backup, a way to, you know, not have quite a catastrophic collapse of these labs, but also of our medications.00;26;23;10 – 00;26;33;19
Speaker 1
And this this trail treeless product has like a brand name, right? It’s actually it’s actually something that someone patented, if I recall.00;26;33;21 – 00;26;45;05
Speaker 2
I’m I believe it is the I believe it was patented for a while. I think the patent may have expired by now.00;26;45;11 – 00;26;46;16
Speaker 1
Okay.00;26;46;19 – 00;26;56;10
Speaker 2
But it’s used in all sorts of things. It’s even used in our cosmetics. So I don’t think it’s brand patented anymore. Cool. My best guess.00;26;56;13 – 00;27;13;29
Speaker 1
Do you enjoy books about science and nature as much as I do? They bring a lot of information together and help you learn about science and the natural world on a much deeper level than you just get from consuming news. Well, we’ve curated a great list of books over at our website. On a page we call the Reading Room.00;27;14;02 – 00;27;37;10
Speaker 1
It also features the books of all the authors that we’ve had on this podcast. Any purchases made through the reading room help support our channel with no added cost to you. Check it out at science centric dot com or look for a link in the description below. So let’s talk about let’s talk about the human monster. So how is the human monster?00;27;37;12 – 00;27;52;00
Speaker 1
First of all, let’s just clarify what is the human monster and then how is the human monster helping to fight type two diabetes? Type two diabetes, right?00;27;52;03 – 00;28;26;19
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So a human monster is a two foot lizard with black and orange pebbly skin that lives in the deserts of Arizona. Essentially the south eastern United States. And it is a very scary looking creature that is very shy. It is all looks and very little scare factor. If you actually research the lizard, it does have a painful bite that makes it seem like it’s venomous, but it is not toxic really to us.00;28;26;19 – 00;29;12;19
Speaker 2
We will not die from a killer monster bite. But that venom, that’s the spit is kind of composed of this venom that just creates a painful, painful bite. You know, it makes the creatures run away that try to eat it. And then there’s also the saliva part of their spit. And it’s that saliva that scientists find. So interesting and why they even looked at these, you know, two foot lizards is because they do this thing where they like to gorge on food, if possible, slow gorge on eggs, say, and then they’ll go for three months without food and then they’ll gorge again and they spike their sugar levels inside their bodies like 30 times like00;29;12;25 – 00;29;55;18
Speaker 2
there’s a massive spike of sugar in their bodies. And if that would happen to us, we would certainly have a disease like our body is not in status, it’s not doing well like it’s freaking out. Right? But these lizards just mosey along. They go back to their their burrow and they’re happy as can be. And a scientist, a doctor called Dr. John NG, he was he noticed that when a HeLa monster bit say, like a baby rabbit, you know, not nice visual, but that’s what they eat and they notice he noticed that their pancreas, the the rabbit’s pancreas would swell, would and gorge.00;29;55;20 – 00;30;28;01
Speaker 2
And he was like, okay, well that’s where insulin is produced. So they must be doing something to this organ in the body that releases insulin. And so he looked more into that and he realized that there is sort of this it’s a bit difficult to describe, but essentially that saliva that helps them digest and moderate those huge spikes in sugar, it does also encourage the pancreas of these creatures because it releases a ton of insulin in their bodies.00;30;28;04 – 00;30;52;26
Speaker 2
And type two diabetics have either a difficulty releasing insulin, they don’t release enough insulin or they’re insulin resistance. And so they need more insulin. Essentially, one of our ways to combat type two diabetes is just to give them more insulin, because even if they do make enough insulin, they’re resistant. So we just dose them higher and then some type two diabetics just don’t make enough insulin themselves.00;30;52;26 – 00;31;25;12
Speaker 2
And so we try to supplement what they don’t make. And they looked to this healer monster to create a better type two diabetes medication because diabetes medications often come with unwanted side effects. So pharmaceutical companies are still looking for a better, most kind of softer version for these diabetic patients. And oftentimes it is unwanted weight gain, which doesn’t necessarily help a type two diabetic that is trying to lose weight.00;31;25;15 – 00;31;50;26
Speaker 2
And they found that this molecule called extended four, but it’s the medications name is better or, you know, fans of Biota who first heard about the correlation called the medication Lizzie after the lizard, they appreciated the side effects in the sense that they actually lost on average something like £5. So there’s no real signifier akin to a weight loss factor here.00;31;50;26 – 00;32;15;25
Speaker 2
It’s not a weight loss pill, but they didn’t gain weight. Right. And so oftentimes we use biota to supplement other stronger medications. So we use two medications at the same time. It’s a very complicated hormones in the body are so complicated. And so we we use it and we use biota currently for millions of type two diabetic patients.00;32;15;27 – 00;32;26;01
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, that’s so interesting that the way that that medication, that compound you mentioned, what’s it called and then for.00;32;26;03 – 00;32;27;15
Speaker 2
Extended for.00;32;27;20 – 00;32;50;23
Speaker 1
England and for it’s so interesting the way that was discovered the doctor to discovered this did he what did he come across it just because of this phenomena of the the baby rabbits pancreas being engorged, was that like the main way that that that was discovered.00;32;50;26 – 00;33;20;08
Speaker 2
Yeah. I’m his origin story is maybe a little bit less fascinating but very stereotypically a scientist. So he was reading papers about the effects of what a huge monster does to the pancreas of these rabbits. And so then he ordered some for himself. What’s kind of fascinating about his story is that he came up with this really incredible discovery and he patented it and he could get no one to buy into it.00;33;20;11 – 00;33;46;01
Speaker 2
And so he held on this patent for years and years and years. He went to a conference by himself with a lanyard. You know, he’s representing himself essentially. There’s no company behind him. And someone happened upon his poster, his poster presentation essentially in the corner of this conference and was like, okay, this is amazing. We want to hear more about this discovery.00;33;46;01 – 00;34;04;03
Speaker 2
This is something that we’re looking for as well. And so then he finally, you know, teamed up with eventually two major, major companies in pharmaceutical companies. But it remained undiscovered for besides him for quite some time.00;34;04;05 – 00;34;19;11
Speaker 1
And what was the timeframe there? I mean, do was it because people I feel like people take this a little more seriously now in terms of drug discovery. Was it did this happen a while back as in terms of.00;34;19;14 – 00;34;44;13
Speaker 2
This did happen a while back? This was decades ago. It’s it is an interesting question as to why it didn’t get picked up. He certainly was trying to have it get picked up. He was doing research. He was in a lab of a Nobel Prize winning scientist. So technically he had all the reasons for it to be seen and picked up.00;34;44;16 – 00;35;16;22
Speaker 2
But as happens in, science is often swamped with lots of information. And so these discoveries can be very slow to fruition. It’s also very it’s much more difficult, I think, in medicine than in, you know, playing inventions or something in the sense that there’s so many regulatory hurdles that medications have to go through that people are very hesitant to take anything new on, especially if something sounds like it came from this weird two foot lizard, you know?00;35;16;22 – 00;35;17;13
Speaker 1
Yeah.00;35;17;16 – 00;35;32;19
Speaker 2
So it’s a it’s a tough sell and yet it’s also somehow an easy sell, right? Like it sounds cool for the media and stuff, but maybe for hesitant pharmaceutical companies. It’s like, well, like, what’s going on here, you know?00;35;32;21 – 00;36;03;11
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, I just kind of find it surprising in a way, because I was thinking about Taxol, which was discovered in you Trees. That’s an. Have you ever looked into that story, by the way? That’s a really interesting, crazy story, how they found that. Oh, yeah. It’s it’s I wrote something about that a long time ago, but it was just they just they kind of just took this swath of forests, ground everything up and just look for any compound that they could find that that might have some some pharmaceutical activity.00;36;03;13 – 00;36;12;03
Speaker 1
Oh, wow. And then found this Taxol compound. And that was the only one out of like, you know, this massive effort.00;36;12;06 – 00;36;27;05
Speaker 2
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I hear they’re doing something similar these days, although I think they’re trying to do a little bit more gently than just taking a bunch of nature and grinding it up. But they’re doing something similar with sponges that live in the sea.00;36;27;07 – 00;36;48;13
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the other one I thought of was, I find this stuff fascinating. What’s the ivermectin thing? Have you ever have you ever looked into that sort at all? No, I know it’s been in the news is kind of like, don’t take ivermectin because it’s not going to help cure COVID. But that’s another one where they just it came from this golf course in Japan.00;36;48;16 – 00;36;53;29
Speaker 1
It was some soil sample and they never found this bacteria again that made this compound.00;36;54;05 – 00;36;58;05
Speaker 2
Oh, I love that story. Okay. Yeah, definitely researching that story after that.00;36;58;06 – 00;37;17;16
Speaker 1
It’s crazy. It’s crazy. I love that. You know, just so random and, you know, they’ve never found it again. And then it went on to win. You know, it is a Nobel Prize winning medicine, but it was, you know, just not not the I mean, people were not insane for thinking it might help with COVID. It just didn’t.00;37;17;16 – 00;37;19;24
Speaker 1
And that didn’t end up helping very much so.00;37;19;27 – 00;37;21;07
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah.00;37;21;09 – 00;37;24;05
Speaker 1
But it is. Yeah. Yeah.00;37;24;07 – 00;37;25;09
Speaker 2
Like, well.00;37;25;12 – 00;37;36;26
Speaker 1
I mean, you can treat a lot of stuff. That’s it. That’s the interesting thing about it. So what if, what do corals have to teach us about making better cement?00;37;36;29 – 00;37;55;07
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a good question. So then you have to think the next question is what is so bad about cement, right. Or concrete? You know, cement is kind of like the flower that goes into concrete, which is like the final finished product, a cake, so to speak, if you want to. You know, what’s the difference between concrete and cement?00;37;55;10 – 00;38;23;03
Speaker 2
And so concrete is responsible for 8% of the world’s carbon dioxide emissions. So apart from the US and China, it is its own third country, essentially in terms of emissions. And so we are looking for ways that we can minimize these emissions and it’s really only come to the forefront of our attention In the last 5 to 10 years.00;38;23;05 – 00;38;57;10
Speaker 2
Recently, Bill Gates has also sort of taken this initiative to work with concrete factories and industry. And so it’s it’s ripe for change. And we are still building at massive speed. So the UN has the statistic that says that we are going to double our buildings. You know, by the time that our children’s babies are our age. So there will be double the buildings on this planet and we probably don’t want to go about it doing the same thing that we’ve always done considering we’re in a climate change crisis.00;38;57;10 – 00;39;22;15
Speaker 2
You know, we’re a time to pivot. So we have some companies who are looking at coral and how they create their skeletons to develop a 99, 98% less, um, less polluting, less, you know, essentially has 99% less carbon emissions than traditional concrete.00;39;22;17 – 00;39;25;18
Speaker 1
And and why is that why.00;39;25;19 – 00;39;27;00
Speaker 2
Was yeah.00;39;27;02 – 00;39;36;06
Speaker 1
I think that gets back to maybe what we were talking about initially, which was you know, waste, waste, lack of waste in the process, right. I mean, if.00;39;36;06 – 00;39;37;05
Speaker 2
You waste.00;39;37;07 – 00;39;47;06
Speaker 1
A bunch of waste in that one, if you’re releasing a much of is it CO2 that it gets released in the process of making concrete?00;39;47;08 – 00;40;13;23
Speaker 2
It is. It’s CO2. And to your question why? There’s a whole bunch of reasons with like the mining, of course, and the transportation, but really it’s because they have to fire up the limestone, which they want to get calcium essentially from the limestone. They have to fire up these huge kilns, kilns to thousands of degrees Celsius. And it’s just hugely carbon intensive.00;40;13;26 – 00;40;27;29
Speaker 2
It’s a process that just takes just it’s it’s almost a 1 to 1 ratio. It’s like one tonne of cement emits, you know, is equivalent to one tonne of carbon that goes into our atmosphere.00;40;28;01 – 00;40;32;00
Speaker 1
Hmm. Okay. Gotcha. So it’s the heating process.00;40;32;00 – 00;40;38;20
Speaker 2
That’s the heating process. Yeah. And so they’ve developed a way to do it without heating these bricks.00;40;38;22 – 00;40;41;10
Speaker 1
And this comes from this comes from corals.00;40;41;12 – 00;40;43;00
Speaker 2
It comes from coral. Yeah.00;40;43;00 – 00;40;45;22
Speaker 1
And how does that work? How does that.00;40;45;22 – 00;41;09;16
Speaker 2
Works? Yeah, well, oftentimes people forget that hard coral in the ocean is an animal just like you and I. And so when they exhale, they release carbon dioxide. And that carbon dioxide reacts with calcium in the water, and it creates those skeletons that you see. So they push ever so slightly away from a surface that they’re on. And then they use these chemicals.00;41;09;18 – 00;41;36;23
Speaker 2
They use this reaction essentially with their breath and the ocean’s calcium to fill in their architecture. Fill in that skeleton. Mm hmm. And a company is using something similar, not coral, because it’s too slow. They grow like a few centimeters a year, which is way too slow for us. Right. But they love this idea that it’s creating what we’re essentially trying to get from our limestone, Right?00;41;36;23 – 00;42;03;00
Speaker 2
We’re trying to get all that calcium from our limestone. Yet you have a creature who’s kind of creating that structure, that want to create as well. And so what they do is they get aggregate sand, you know, recycled aggregate sand, which we have tons of you demolish buildings, too. And so they use this aggregate sand and then they put nutrients, they sprinkle nutrients essentially on these bricks.00;42;03;06 – 00;42;30;20
Speaker 2
And there is bacteria in these sand bricks. They’re not hardened yet. Those bacteria and these bacteria do something very similar as well. They create that calcium carbonate essentially between the grains of sand and they like stick all those grains of the sand together. They essentially are the glue that holds it together and makes it really strong. And experiments have shown that it can really hold up to some impressive testing.00;42;30;20 – 00;42;51;15
Speaker 2
They use them. I think Dropbox has offices currently. They’re being used at airports. You know, it’s been slow in some ways and fast to take up because people are hesitant to use a new material in case anything goes wrong. So they’re doing their due diligence and they’re taking it slowly. But it’s a big company and it has big promise.00;42;51;17 – 00;43;09;00
Speaker 1
Is that something that can be done on scale in the same way that that creating concrete can create? Question Yeah, because the, you know, bacteria, their output at least individually, is quite small.00;43;09;03 – 00;43;38;05
Speaker 2
It is for bacteria. You can just create billions and billions of bacteria so, so easily. Right? And so you do need warehouse space, but it only takes 3 to 5 days to create these concrete bricks. So it’s actually exceptionally quick compared to our current traditional standard concrete industry now where things can get a little tricky, you may say, is that our concrete is not just concrete, we have concrete with like steel bars put into them.00;43;38;07 – 00;43;58;16
Speaker 2
You know, we start to do much more complex things with concrete. But bio mason, as the company is called, is also starting to show that they too can do creative things with these bricks. They even have one that I think is just fun right where and it’ll be perfect to use in Seattle, where you can have what looks like just a concrete walk, right?00;43;58;16 – 00;44;24;04
Speaker 2
But when rain hits it, it actually can showcase a slightly darker, you know, pattern or image on the ground. And so they’ve they can make glow in the dark sidewalks bacteria are incredible and we often don’t harness them enough and it’s yeah it’s a beautiful use of biomimicry and also kind of scientific innovation.00;44;24;06 – 00;44;36;04
Speaker 1
Yeah. It seems like you could also, you know, throw some sand and bacteria in in some oddly shaped space and and fill it up. You know, if you if you gave it time.00;44;36;06 – 00;44;51;24
Speaker 2
That’s actually a really interesting point. Yeah. I wonder if they could make it more mobile to the location. Right. Like it didn’t have to just be warehouses although that’s useful to you. But could they actually create more of a device and just use that device on site? That would be pretty cool.00;44;51;27 – 00;44;58;00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. You could just, you know, have a hose and make a building out of it. It’s like a.00;44;58;00 – 00;45;00;14
Speaker 2
Big concrete gardiners. Yeah.00;45;00;17 – 00;45;24;06
Speaker 1
Yes, the 3D printer kind of. Yeah. Or something like that. Do you work for a science or technology focused organization? And we like to create video content but don’t know where to start. Well, my company, Flensburg Media, the publisher of this podcast, can help you. We are a one stop shop that can provide content, strategy, video production, and even social media management.00;45;24;08 – 00;45;59;16
Speaker 1
Our previous clients include educational institutions, academic publishers, trade organizations chains and aerospace companies. These are innovative, world changing organizations who are leading humanity toward a brighter future. Learn More Flow Sparks, or look for the link in the description below. So let’s talk about why or how how spiders, let’s say, are helping birds not to crash into windows. And it’s not not not intentionally.00;45;59;18 – 00;46;02;20
Speaker 2
It may not be intentional. Yes.00;46;02;23 – 00;46;06;17
Speaker 1
They haven’t. They don’t care if birds hit windows. They probably want to eat the birds. So.00;46;06;24 – 00;46;34;21
Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah, Yeah. That is sort of interesting origin story because initially there was research to suggest that you see that spider webs reflect EUV and it could be to prevent were birds from crashing into their spider webs. We now know that it could also be you to attract insects to the spider web. There could be a whole host of reasons, and people are skeptical.00;46;34;21 – 00;47;01;05
Speaker 2
That’s because to deter birds essentially from crashing into their webs, although that might be a reason to. It could be multiple reasons. Right. But a company looked into this. They loved this research. They looked into it and they knew that we have this design issue with our windows where 100 to 1 billion birds each year die by window collisions in the United States alone.00;47;01;07 – 00;47;24;29
Speaker 2
Right? A massive amount of birds die by window collisions. And is there a way that we can preserve our bird population and the diversity of our bird population by using maybe a unique system found in nature? So here they looked to the spider webs and how they use UV. This would be a great solution because humans can’t see U.V., right?00;47;24;29 – 00;47;46;24
Speaker 2
So our windows would remain clear. We can see through them, but birds can see them and they’d be like, Nope, don’t want to go there. I’m going to go around the building instead of smack into it right? And so they’ve been doing it. They still continue to do tons of testing for this. They have, you know, wood tunnels set up with different kinds of glass at the end.00;47;46;24 – 00;48;06;12
Speaker 2
And they have birds fly at it and then they release and there’s there’s a net in front, by the way. So they don’t, you know, have the birds crash into the window. So now they’re like, okay, you’re done. So they have a net to catch them. It’s all humane. They let them go free, but they record how many times they crash onto which side of this tunnel.00;48;06;14 – 00;48;33;14
Speaker 2
And they did find that U.V. inscribed windows, essentially they kind of refer to as like avian hieroglyphics, things that only the birds can see. They do work to a degree. You know, 80 of the 100 birds say did did avoid, you know, the UV window. And 20 were like, hey, I don’t see it. And they just crashed right into that side.00;48;33;16 – 00;48;42;23
Speaker 2
But we also have better alternatives out there. So it’s better than a traditional glass window. It’s not the best option that we have.00;48;42;25 – 00;48;49;15
Speaker 1
I just wanted to interject and just ask you, well, what are avian hieroglyphics?00;48;49;15 – 00;49;14;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I love this like terminology that they use. So avian hieroglyphics, right? It’s like something that only the birds can understand and see, but that we cannot comprehend or see in our windows. But it’s there. So it’s something that they can read or see out there but the humans cannot see. And so they kind of have this like coined term that it’s avian hieroglyphics, right.00;49;14;11 – 00;49;46;19
Speaker 2
Which is a fun way of describing it. It’s also not necessarily the complete story. So I think you’ll find I mean, that we’ve somehow stopped bird collisions with these UAV windows, and yet that’s not entirely the full story. And we know they’re also very expensive, these windows. You know, it’s hard to embed UAV into windows. And oftentimes windows are still convoluted by reflection is from bushes or from light on the inside of a building.00;49;46;19 – 00;49;53;02
Speaker 2
And it’s dark outside. Right. And it makes it harder to see that UV in the windows themselves.00;49;53;05 – 00;50;06;10
Speaker 1
So are the are the other approaches that people are looking at to stopping these bird collisions? Are those also based on biomimicry or are they just using more traditional methods that they invented?00;50;06;13 – 00;50;30;05
Speaker 2
Now they’re just using common sense, and I love this one so much, they essentially the best methods are parachute cords, which are like strings, you know, four inches apart on windows that kind of wave back and forth or chart tape. You may have seen dots. Essentially stickers are the best way to prevent bird collisions. But oftentimes as humans.00;50;30;05 – 00;50;57;20
Speaker 2
Right. We want to have a clear view out our windows. And so it’s almost this moral dilemma, right? Like, do we want to prevent bird deaths or do we we want to see our windows clearly, that’s kind of the question on the table right now, because that’s what we’re struggling with. We don’t have a perfect a perfect answer yet unless you think maybe chart tape like really cheap, sharp chart tape or parachute cords is the answer here.00;50;57;22 – 00;51;02;15
Speaker 1
I love that. It’s like a simple solution. It’s like just put some duct tape on the window and.00;51;02;19 – 00;51;24;00
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. So and yet it’s like a really intense moral dilemma. You know, people actually have discussions about this right? Like, well, we can’t, you know, can’t, you know, disrupt the view. You can still see outside, by the way, it’s just like not as perfect. We right there is like literally discussions people have about this. Like can we put tape on windows?00;51;24;00 – 00;51;34;11
Speaker 2
Can we not put tape on windows? You know, what will people think about that is just amazing. It’s human psychology.00;51;34;14 – 00;51;56;20
Speaker 1
Anything to preserve that view. I guess my question is, do you think that we’re going to see more of this biomimicry thing, biomimicry technology in the future? And do you do you think that it’s important to humanity’s future?00;51;56;23 – 00;52;34;17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I do think I will see We will see more biomimicry in the future. I think where we are going to advance the quickest is in material science. And so it doesn’t sound sexy, but it is it goes back to what I was saying at the beginning, which is we construct everything with steel and harsh corners, right? But we now have nanotechnology and really interesting material engineering where we now trying to make flexible surfaces and electronics that can lay flat on these flexible surfaces.00;52;34;19 – 00;53;10;05
Speaker 2
And maybe a battery doesn’t have to be just a battery. Maybe a battery can act kind of like our body fat and be all across the device, right. Or all across the robot. And it doesn’t just have to carry a battery, a huge battery at its core. And this opens up so many more avenues of creativity for how we design a robot, how we create energy, how we how we really use our science, you know, because oftentimes our limitation is really the materials that we have at hand.00;53;10;08 – 00;53;17;28
Speaker 2
But this is actually, I think, where we are progressing the furthest and where we also see a lot of biomimicry.00;53;18;01 – 00;53;18;19
Speaker 1
Interesting.00;53;18;20 – 00;53;19;20
Speaker 2
Yeah.00;53;19;23 – 00;53;40;00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Materials science is, like you said, not the sexiest topic. It seems a little dry, but then you see those papers come out and it’s like, Oh my God, this, you know, tube is moving like a snake. Or, you know, they submitted this new rubber that can, you know, flex and bend in origami shapes and you’re like, Oh my God, that’s amazing.00;53;40;00 – 00;54;03;04
Speaker 2
So exactly. Because if you think about it, we have like DNA, right? That can just pack into a super small space. And yet if you really were to just take it out, it’s so, so, so long. Right. Well, is there a way that we can also pack things into tighter spaces? Is there a way that we can, you know, get inside places we have never gotten inside of, including our own bodies, right?00;54;03;07 – 00;54;10;13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Materials science is just so ripe for so many innovations. And it’s it’s really exciting.00;54;10;15 – 00;54;20;28
Speaker 1
Cool. So where can people find this book and where can they find you online?00;54;21;01 – 00;54;28;18
Speaker 2
Online? Okay. Does it work in They find me not going to go to my home address.00;54;28;20 – 00;54;30;29
Speaker 1
And in a coffee. Not in a coffee shop from where?00;54;31;01 – 00;55;08;12
Speaker 2
Yeah. So they can pretty much find the book anywhere online on all major platforms like Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And there’s also indie bookstores that they can go to and yeah, and good reads and whatnot. I have a website Christy Hamilton Ecom and I’m also pretty avid on Instagram. If you want to see amazing pictures of nature, but not necessarily science, it’s much more nature focused on my Instagram, much more just social me out in nature appreciating it.00;55;08;14 – 00;55;12;01
Speaker 2
If you want to see more of my work, you can go to my website.00;55;12;03 – 00;55;27;09
Speaker 1
All right. Awesome. Well, that’s it for this show. I hope you learned as much as I did. Be sure to take a look around your house and notice if some of your things are modeled after objects found in nature. Before we sign off, a quick reminder to link this episode and leave a comment on anything you found interesting.00;55;27;09 – 00;55;29;15
Speaker 1
Until next time miracles and.